Sunday 2 February 2014

we going back in time - to the dark old bad days of schooling by threat! scummy cuntry ran by cunts!

Teachers Told To 'Get Tough' On Bad Behaviour

"Tough but proportionate" punishments for unruly pupils - including community service-style sanctions - will be set out this week.

Inside the classroom
Video: Unruly Pupils 'To Mop Dirty Floors'
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Misbehaving pupils face a return to the days of writing out lines hundreds of times or being told to pick up litter under a major overhaul of school discipline.
Education Secretary Michael Gove says he wants a return to traditional classroom discipline and is urging teachers not be afraid of "getting tough" on bad behaviour in schools.
He will set out a list of new guidelines for teachers, to be issued this week, that will say "tough but proportionate" punishments such as writing lines "are just as crucial to an effective education as praising and rewarding good behaviour".
The "community service" sanctions could include picking up litter in the playgrounds, weeding, mopping dirty floors and removing graffiti.
Pupils could also be ordered to report to school early, attend weekend detentions, or forfeit privileges such as joining in a non-uniform day.
Secretary of State for Education Michael Gove
Mr Gove blames Labour for 'decline in education standards'
Mr Gove, who has been critical of "trendy" teaching methods, told The Mail on Sunday: "Writing lines is tedious, monotonous, boring - and a perfect punishment for bad behaviour.
"Children need to learn the importance of strong discipline and to understand that misbehaving at school has consequences.
"We are making crystal clear to teachers that telling children to write lines is an entirely appropriate punishment.
"These new guidelines will give teachers the confidence to be tougher on bad behaviour and ensure every child has the chance to learn in a controlled, orderly environment."
Sky's chief political correspondent Jon Craig said: "Mr Gove has blamed Labour for a decline in standards and says the party left office with '600 pages of confusing, dense, contradictory guidance for teachers on how to manage behaviour'.
"He calls it 'mind-numbing waffle' and says the new Tory guidance will be a handy 50 pages."
He added: "Labour have already hit back. Shadow education secretary Tristram Hunt has said Cameron and Gove have dropped the ball on discipline, and their decision to allow unqualified teachers into the classroom on a permanent basis means we have teachers who lack the training required to keep order."
Kevin Courtney, deputy general secretary of the National Union of Teachers, said many of the punishments mentioned by Mr Gove, such as litter picking, were already being used in a lot of schools.
He said that "sufficient training at teacher training level and access to ongoing support and training throughout their careers" was needed to make sure that teachers are confident when faced with difficult situations.
"Michael Gove's policy of abandoning QTS (Qualified Teacher Status) and running down local authority support services undermines both of these."
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32 comments
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Pablo Brown

12:22 PM on 2/2/2014
msgoth@ Touch-wood my kids haven't caused any problems at (or outside) school,but I know if they did they'd rather mop floors and take a weekend detention than be punished by me or their mother. Maybe that's the reason why I never had any problems from them. We're not ogres,but if punishment is needed,then we'll reluctantly chastise our children. Lucky enough,I haven't had to smack any of my children,but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. What's the big deal about mopping the floor anyway Goth? If one of my kids disrupts a lesson,mopping the floor is the least I'd expect. I mean,it's not going to scar them for life,it might even come in handy if they fail to get a decent education.
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Sensible-Jim

11:36 AM on 2/2/2014
msgoth

1:16 AM on 2/2/2014

no way would my child be mopping floor or even be at school at weekends if she was naughty'

AND THERE folks lies a problem, parents
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Sensible-Jim

11:35 AM on 2/2/2014
I ALWAYS enjoyed writing lines , i thought of it as a way of improving my writing. Also on occasions i got to stay in when others, having shown good behavior, were forced outside in the freezing temperatures, rain and wind to 'play'.

In any case im all for proper punishment such as cleaning graffiti, washing walls hey even my shoes need abit of a clean and polish. Im happy to drop of and will pay a few quid to the school as payment.
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Lloyd Belle

11:24 AM on 2/2/2014
msgoth
1:16 AM on 2/2/2014

no way would my child be mopping floor or even be at school at weekends if she was naughty
______________________________________________

@msgoth,

Your comment demonstrates another problem to this debate, where parents believe their child can do no wrong, or entitled to be naughty without consequences.
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Cynic6

11:00 AM on 2/2/2014
And when precious little junior refuses? It's not guidance that teachers need. It's authority and backing from the parents. Which in many cases they won't get. So they need backing from the police and the courts when Dwayne's mum or dad comes in to complain and gets physical. There also have to be tougher alternatives. Bring back Borstal and MEAN it.
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The Controversial one

10:42 AM on 2/2/2014
Just like the good old days. Bring back corporal punishment and permit the use of the cane in schools as well and we might start to see a whole change for the better. Just wait for the do gooders to stick their noses
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oldhamer

10:20 AM on 2/2/2014
i think gov should be sacked today.
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Xarkaltos

9:34 AM on 2/2/2014
It'll never happen, too many coddling parents would complain if their little Popsy-Muffin was told to pick litter or mop floors. And then there's the cleaners unions when they had to clean up the mess that little Popsy-Muffin makes if she ever did get hold of a mop.
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animal64

9:06 AM on 2/2/2014
well they better teach the teachers how to punish the correct people trying to punish a kid for defending him self from attack from 5 other kids is not the way to go about it, punishing a whole class because of a couple of kids will make them think whats the point mite as well mess about as we are going to cop it as well, try punishing the wrong doers as this is not what happens
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ARM

8:41 AM on 2/2/2014
It's too late. The culture of proper discipline in schools has gone past the point of return. A culture of disrespect prevails.
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mirror-man

8:40 AM on 2/2/2014
Michael Gove says he wants a return to traditional classroom discipline.

Good for him bring back the cane as well. It never did me any harm.
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Tracey Ede Watson

8:31 AM on 2/2/2014
Writing lines and picking up the litter were punishments when I was at school - we just got on with it , there needs to be some discipline in schools !!
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SW Lady

8:30 AM on 2/2/2014
So how does a teacher cope when a child is violent (and I quote from a teacher of mine). "when I was at teacher training a desk was thrown at me" in an inner-city school"? How far can lines go when a child is bringing out a weapon. You start introducing punishments like lines and only the fairly good kids are going to actually do the punishment.
The local primary school teaches about Victorians. They are told that Victorians used the cane for punishment and they are horrified ie a good deterrent. What they are not told is that the cane was used as a last-resort punishment as late as the 1970's and it would be interesting to compare the discipline from now. Yes lines are all very well but how about primary schools instilling a good behavior, good manners discipline from day one to instill a good behavior regime in all schools (very similar to private schools such as standing up when an adult enters the room, opening doors for each other, patiently waiting for people to pass, saying please and thank you and reinforcing it time after time until it is normal behavior at school even if it is not backed up at home) and maybe it will rub off on some of the parents!
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ipsofacto

8:27 AM on 2/2/2014
Mr Gove, if you want a return to traditional teaching then abolish OFSTED and league tables and stop the politicisation of education. Let teachers run education and you will see standards rise.

You haven't got a clue, Mr Gove. You are critical of 'trendy' teaching methods and yet you fail to realise that those methods are *exactly* the ones that OFSTED want to see.

I agree that unruly, anti-social pupils should be forced to undertake 'community service' within schools. Many parents will support this - until it is their child who is being punished. No doubt, any school that upsets parents and children will end up in the European court of 'ooman rites'.

If you really really believed what you are saying, Mr Gove, then you would have made this announcement on day one of you holding office. The cynic in me, however, suggests that this is simply another 'sound bite' getting ready for next year's election.
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adrian1972

4:21 AM on 2/2/2014
I have had the "detentions writing out lines "
I have had the "sit in the corner "
I have had the "pick the litter up"

non of these had much of an effect when I was a child BUT

I have had the " ruler over my hand "
I have had the " P.E. pump over my back side "
I have had the " Cane "

now the last 3 made me behave in school and the rest of my life as I learned to respect others ,follow the rules and Don't Do Bad Things...

I have children of my own and if the Cane came I would fully support it.. Parents should not have any fear of these punishments unless your a BAD parent who doesn't want to teach their child, discipline, respect and honesty..

SO BRING IT BACK LIKE IT WAS IN THE 70'S AND 80'S ...
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joan wilson

4:20 AM on 2/2/2014
bad Behaviour lets see, wee force feed them with negative influences through the media. we see celebrities with no moral backbone willing to do perform any sordid acts for financial gain and fame, they see the family struggling daily to put food on the table or otherwise find work, they are in classrooms which are overflowing, and now we want to PUNISH them for bad behavior this is a demoralised nation we are living in, why should our children be any different we should be HELPING them not chastising them after all they are the future.( bad parenting that's another issue)
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rosie h

4:11 AM on 2/2/2014
Mr Gove is right, and as usual, the Communist Labour party are again wrong.
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mickeym

4:05 AM on 2/2/2014
So if I refuse to pick up litter you will do what, exactly. Another useless proposal from a Tory party running out of ideas.
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roger1

3:57 AM on 2/2/2014
As this is going to happen like many things today it is just a sound byte.We can see through this rubbish they need to up their game.
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tempus-fugit

3:32 AM on 2/2/2014
In the 1970s teachers were motivated to change the relationship between themselves and their charges, insomuch as they were under the delusion that befriending their charges would lead to a better teacher / pupil relationship!

This resulted in communications being carried out on a first name basis, gone was 'sir' and 'miss;' this removed the unwritten control aspect between teachers over pupils, respect for seniority, knowledge and status was next to be sacrificed!

This was exacerbated by these teachers informing their new 'friends' that "you have rights;" these pupils are now parents and grandparents who have passed on the "you have rights message!"

Trying to put the Genie back into the bottle is not the answer!
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rmbrown

3:30 AM on 2/2/2014
I agree! Its about time. If parents cant or wont discipline their children then why should the poor teachers put up with the end result. Some parents are as bad as the kids. The law should say if bad behaviour is present in schools then the teachers have aright to discipline without threats from the parents. It never did me any harm to be put in my place and learn some rules of what is right and wrong. That's the problem, kids today don't know right from wrong. Or don't even care if it is wrong!!
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moto26

3:27 AM on 2/2/2014
@msgoth and therein lies the root of the problem. Parent's who won't support the schools or authorities and who think their little darlings are above reproach. Grow up and be a proper parent and yes that includes teaching discipline and being responsible for your actions.
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Mr bassethound

3:04 AM on 2/2/2014
What like the old days you mean?
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keith8

2:51 AM on 2/2/2014
What if the pupil given the punishment refuses to do it ????
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Gj73

2:39 AM on 2/2/2014
Well there you have it, Labour & the NUT have spoken negatively, so that just confirms this is a good idea. I'm amazed it is a current standard anyway, but there you go. Detention, lines, litter duty et al, was always the norm, so who ever removed it in the 1st place ought to look back & admit the mistake.

Teachers are there to educate first & foremost, pupils need to understand what is deemed acceptable behaviour & adhere to it. I'm still in support of the ex-army people being brought in to er, re-educate pupils what discipline really is. They have a wealth of experience & training & if they can pass that on to pupils, the pupils will ultimately benefit.
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